Due by class time on: Mon., March 28th, 2011
The responses by the whole class are due by class time on: Wed., March 30th, 2011
The text you need to read is here.
By: Lauren Foley
The article “Brazil’s Piraha Tribe: Living Without Numbers or Time” was written by Rafaela von Bredow. The article is based on the Piraha, or Amazon people and their interesting language. These people have no history, descriptive words, or subordinate clauses. David Everett, a British ethnologist, has dedicated his whole career to studying this language. He lived with the Pirahas for seven years, but did not expose his information right away because he was not confident in it yet. The research that was uncovered created a huge debate between linguistics, anthropologists, and cognitive researchers. These people were concerned about the impact the ways the Pirahas communicated with one another on the study of human language. Bredow stated linguistic researchers mostly focus on the idioms across the world and which ones are common. What bothers them so much about the Piraha language is it goes against all essential features of all languages. The characteristics of the Piraha language are as follows: use only three pronouns, hardly use words associated with time, past tense verb conjunctions don’t exist, colors are not used to describe things, no real use for numbers, and no subordinate clauses. The last one is what really bothers researchers. Bredow uses the example of eating; we would say, “When I have finished eating, I would like to speak to you”, and Pirahas would say, “I finish eating, I speak with you.” Peter Gordon, a psycholinguist, studied the Pirahas mathematical abilities. Like I said before, they did not seem to use numbers much, and Gordon’s research showed Pirahas simply do not understand numbers. Everett could relate to this because during his seven years, he took eight months and tried to teach the Pirahas how to count. There was not one who could get to ten. One explanation of the Pirahas language is that it is created by the culture, and not doing certain things in their language is a result of culture. The goal is to try and show that the Pirahas actually can think in a recursive fashion.
Blog Post 25: The Language of the Piraha
By: Kevin Talley
"Brazil's Pirahã Tribe: Living without Numbers or Time", written by Rafaela von Bredow, is an article about 'forest dwellers' and the way in which they communicate with each other. The Pirahã Tribe speaks a language that numerous linguists look at as a language that does not fit into the accepted criteria of what a language should hold. The reasoning behind this claim being; there are only three pro-nouns present within their language, the Pirahã seem to rarely use word that have any association with time or numbers, within the language there are not past tense verb conjugations used, and there is also the fact that the Pirahã tribe does not have words for colors. Reading on further into the article, the reader will be able to see that; although all of these factors do play a significant role in why the Pirahã’s language does not function as any other. This is due to the fact that within the language there are no subordinate clauses. To better understand what this means, clauses are groups of words with a subject and a verb, while subordinate means that they cannot stand alone meaning that they are sentence fragments. This means that the Pirahã speak in a way that leaves a listener wanted to add more ‘substance’ to the sentence. An example of this being:
Normal Clause: "When I have finished eating, I would like to speak with you,"
Pirahãs : "I finish eating, I speak with you."
I thought this article was very interesting, and the summary was well written. It amazes me how many things are left out of the language used by the Pirahas. The language misses things that are common to several other languages, and that baffles researchers. What baffles researchers and myself is their lack of ability to use numbers. Gordon's research showed that no one could even count to ten from the Pirahas. This amazes me, because many people now'a'days can count to ten in at least one, if not more languages.
ReplyDeleteThis article was very intriguing because it gave me knowledge about a new language i never knew existed. The author gave a brief history of language. The article also tells about the development of the language. As a reader, the first thing I thought is what is the difference between this language and ours. I enjoyed this reading.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this article was very informing because i did not have a lot of knowledge on the Amazon people and their language. What i do not understand is why is scientist bothered about the way that they speak? the Amazons seem to be surviving just find with the way that they speak to each other now.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting topic. My brother actually read a book about the Pirahas and recommended it to me; unfortunately, I have not read it. I think it is fascinating that a single culture's language can be so different from all others that it actually causes a debate. From what I understand, the Piraha's language called into question the ideas of Noam Chomsky, who apparently believes that all humans are born with an innate (genetic I guess) template for developing language, hence the many similarities between diverse languages. The Pirahas, on the other hand, don't exhibit these characteristics. Therefore, it would seem that language is not some kind of genetic, universal trait but a social construct that invariably rises out of humans' capacity for it, not destiny.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading the first few paragraphs in this article, I have recognized the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis which represents the thesis that language determines human beings’ thought. I think this article which is talked about the Piraha language is a language without tense, subordinate clause and number since they have no these kind of concepts. It may be another proof towards Sapir-Whorf hypothesis like Eskimo have over five hundred descriptions about snow. The piraha language has no number and subordinate clause do not means they are so dumb. They are even smarter than urban people who are educated. This article has expanded my eyes.
ReplyDeleteThe summary was well-written but it did not catch my attention as much as the previous articles. The subject/topic of the article did not interest me whatsoever. The author went into depth about the history and the language of Piraha's, but what I did learn was that even though a cultures language may be different from the rest of the others, it can cause some debate. For instance, Noam Chomsky, apparently believes that all humans are born with an innate template for developing language. On the other hand, the Pirahas do not exhibit these characteristics. Therefore, we come to the conclusion that language is not genetic but a universal thing that people can learn and it is also a social construct that shapes the peoples cultures.
ReplyDeleteI thought this article was very interesting to the subject of communications, as well as linguistics. It is so hard for me to understand or even think of how people don’t or can’t use words to describe their every thought, action, and need. Something about this is intriguing but also very sad. It makes one wonder how this is even possible in day of technology and convenience. I find it very odd that the tribe has no need for numbers. One would assume that being able to count the members of the tribe would be necessary for survival. Also, the tribe does not use past tenses; we spoke about this earlier in the year and a lot of Southeast Asian countries do not use past tenses either. The idea that language helps develop advanced thoughts and capabilities is absolutely true.
ReplyDeleteI thought that this article is one of the most interesting that we have read this semester. I like the simplicity of the Piraha's language, and that it stemmed from their culture's simplicity. I do not know why researchers would be "bothered" by a culture's use, or lack of, language because they do not use subordinate clauses. I do not think that because these people cannot count to ten or use subordinate clauses that they cannot think in a "recursive fashion." I think that these people do not to count to high numbers or speak grammatically correct, because their culture and way of life does not call for those things. The tribe seems to get what is crucial across, and that is really all that matters.
ReplyDeleteI like that the Pariah live in the now. They don't seem to have a need for past and future. I don't see how they don't have any words, or concept, of number; wouldn't they need this skill for trading their Brazil nuts to others? I guess if you don't have to work, other than finding food and creating shelter, to live, you would just trade for necessities and not need to know what the exact time was because the sun would tell you the approximate time.
ReplyDeleteI think the Brazilian Piraha's language is very interesting. I was astounded to read that they can communicate without using numbers, time, or even past tense. But I definitely agree that since their culture does not call for it why add unnecessary things? Our language to them may not seem complex but rather unnecessary. I like that they stuck with the basics. They are able to communicate successfully, that is what matters. I think it would be harsh to judge them because they cannot count to ten. But I am positive that there are things that we (Americans) could not comprehend also. Learning about this culture is just a reminder to be open minded and that your way is not necessarily the right way.
ReplyDeleteThis was by far the best article to read throughout the semester in terms of how well written the article was by detailing the Brazilian language. With this being said, the Brazilian language holds an astonishing way of communication in which they communicate without using numbers or even use words in past tense! This to me is amazing because in our language we use past tense almost all the time. One of the main reasons why they do not use these subjects in their language is because they don't need to in which there language does not call for any of those uses, so why bother using them when they do not need to in there dialect.
ReplyDeleteI think this article was very interesting because of the it looked at a culture that I had no idea of. I think every culture has their own type of language but the Pirahas way of speech was most interesting. They speak in a somewhat "archaic" manner by U.S. standards, yet I found it so intriguing that they don't understand numbers. For someone to not understand something that we use everyday whether we know it or not baffles me. We use numbers to tell time, to look find classrooms, etc. I'm sure the Pirahas use numbers as well when gathering food, or whatever else, and the fact that they don't know it is baffling.
ReplyDeleteThis was a great article to read because it taught me a lot about a culture that I have little knowledge of. The way the Pirahas use their words to complete a sentence is far different from what I am used to. When they speak it seem incomplete but I'm sure they might feel the same way about our culture. Their language is based off their culture. The rules their language go by is unique like only using three pronouns in a sentence or not using colors to decribe things. Honestly, not to sound harsh but I am able to speak without so many unnecessary rules involved. Great summary overall.
ReplyDeleteThe article Brazilian Piraha's language is a challenge a to our typical western ways of thinking of language and overall what it means to be a civilized and intellectual human being. What this article fails to portray are the advances made by the Pirahas culture and the way in which intelligence is measured. The article takes our own way of thinking and our own measure of intellect and compares it to theirs. For example the part about teaching the Piraha’s how to count… totally irrelevant. There is a lot this culture and their way of thinking with language that is much more complex then what we are accustomed to, however it is just in a different form, these people are no less intelligent, rather there is a different focus.
ReplyDeleteI thought this article was very interesting and very ignorant at the same time. The article was interesting because it showed another culture, a culture we cannot understand because it is so different that we are confused by their innate abilities. The speech is different, so we automatically mark them as odd which is truly ignorant on our part. As much as we say that we are open to different idea and things, the author sounded offensive at times. These people are no less intelligent, they just happen to communicate differently.
ReplyDeleteI liked this article because it really made me think. The author discusses the idea that this group of people does not deal with numbers or time--this sounds like my kind of culture! I think if noone in the world dealt with numbers or time life would be much better. We wouldn't have all of the intrusive technology we have now and we wouldn't be worried about the time every second of our lives. Sometimes when we go camping we wont look at our phones to see the time like the whole trip and it's so relaxing--that's what I imagine this culture is like. I really hope that during the author's research time he didn't try to teach the Piraha our ways because I don't think they need to be subjected to our culture, it's nice to know there are still original cultures out there.
ReplyDeleteI found this article to be very interesting and informative because I never even knew this language ever existed. The interesting part of the article was learning about how different their language is from the English language. Those things that really make up our language such as using the correct tense of a word or the pronouns in a sentence really doesnt exist in their language. It is just interesting to know that even though it is a language, all languages does not have to take the same form in order to be recognized as a spoken language. This language is so different than what I am used to but all in all the article was interesting.
ReplyDeleteI found this article to be extremly interesting. It is difficult for me to understand how they could not use words to describe things or count. I could not imagine trying to tell someone something without using color or number to try to describe it. I believe that this topic would make a fascinating research paper.
ReplyDeleteWow! That is an interesting article, it really surprises me that a language like this exists. I am surprised they don't use any of the describing colors. Nor do they ever use tenses or numbers. Yet everything still functions as normal. No wonder this language is a hot button debate with the people in linguistics. It just doesn't seem possible really. But they have managed for so many centuries, truly if you keep your mind open you can learn something new everyday.
ReplyDeleteAuthor Bredow really puts the reader into perspective with a language which almost seems surreal. It does not seem like emotion and description matters to the Piraha culture. I can see this functioning civilization as a more organized, and less empathic group of individuals. The Piraha's language lacks subordinate clauses, which really stirs up the linguists' interpretation. The only problem I see with this language is that it doesn't allow one to gain an extraordinary amount of knowledge; they are limited to the people around them, which restricts the Pirahas from advancing intellectually.
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting thing about this article for me was the fact that the Piraha people don't use numbers. It would seem that at some point in their development, it would have become necessary for them to count things. They must live in a region where natural resources are plentiful and they don't have to worry about counting things. Still, it's really very surprising.
ReplyDeleteThe article “Brazil’s Piraha Tribe: Living Without Numbers or Time” by Rafaela von Bredow is an article based on the Amazon people and their interesting language. A British ethnologist David Everett, spent seven years among the Piraha tribe studing their language and realized their language doesn't use past tense, numbers, or colors. I thought this was very interresting because they use the bare minimum baises of communication.
ReplyDeleteThis article about the Piraha tribe by Rafael von Bredow is very interesting. Aside from the fact that Daniel Everett barely avoided death by understanding enough of the Piraha language to know that they tribe wanted to murder him. The language of the Piraha people is a very direct language. The language consists of only three pronouns and doesn’t describe colors. The piraha language is simple and appears as if it will stay that way. The people are happy with the way are living.
ReplyDeleteThe article “Brazil’s Piraha Tribe: Living Without Numbers or Time” was written by Rafaela von Bredow. The article is based on the Amazon people and their interesting language. I thought this article was very interesting, and the summary was well written. The author went into depth about the history and the language of Piraha's. The language misses things that are common to several other languages.
ReplyDeleteThe article “Brazil’s Piraha Tribe: Living Without Numbers or Time” was written by Rafaela von Bredow. This article was very interesting in comparison to the other articles we have been reading throughout the semester. The article discusses the research on the Piraha tribal language, done by David Everett, a British ethnologist. There are many common descriptive words, which are left out of the language, which interests researchers from all areas of study. They do not have words to describe tenses, numbers or colors.
ReplyDeleteAs I read the article, I began to see how accurate the summary was written. The articles summary was very interesting and drew me in as their audience. In the article Sapir-Whorf states that language determines humans thoughts, with this being said I completely agree with the statement. Language is one of the oldest forms of communication and the most productive, without language it would be hard for humans to deliver personal thoughts. Some people might bring upon the point of sign language and body language, but I would argue that these are all forms of language. Also in the article summary I learned that the Piraha’s language is considered something that we have to develop in construct and which shapes their nature of their culture. In conclusion language is seen differently across the world and it is determined by the countries interpretation.
ReplyDeleteThis article was very interesting. I really liked learning about the language of the Pirriah’s and all the differences and discoveries that were found. It is interesting that they lack ability to use numbers. Whereas numbers are such an important part of our lives and our language, they are seemingly non-existent in theirs. The summary written for this article was very good and very detailed.
ReplyDelete