Due by class time on: Friday, Feb. 11th, 2011
The responses by the whole class are due by class time on: Mon., Feb. 14th, 2011
The text you need to read is here.
By Ryan O'Connell
Macrorie wrote their article about the words order of. Do you see how confusing that sentence is? Macrorie tells how a mix up of agreement signals and word order can disrupt the meaning of a sentence. He believes that young children have no problem with this but that older writers find these concepts difficult. The first sentence of this summary should read, “Macrorie wrote his article about the order of words.”
Signal disagreement is demonstrated in his example, “Johnny and Bill has his own bike.” The word “his” is signaling oneness when their needs to be a plural. “Johnny and Bill have their own bikes” sounds much better. Macrorie states, “...in the American grammatical system words like he, she, or they preceded by prepositions signal their relationship by changing to the object form (him, her, or them).”
The article tells how most editors “...find little that is grammatically weak about the writing they edit, and when they do, the weaknesses are usually confined to a few troubles...” These troubles are as follows:
Confusing word order
Lack of clear signal by pronouns
Verbs that don't signal which nouns they belong to
One example of word order signals meaning Macrorie uses is, “When green I love the woods most of all.” Macrorie takes much offense to this sentence and wonders “Is that when I am green (sick at the stomach) (young, like a green plant), or when the woods are green?” He offers the revision, “I love the woods when green most of all.”
Macrorie talks about dangling modifiers with his example, “While walking back from my English class, a squirrel came up and stepped on my foot.” I've decided to fix this by changing the sentence to, “A squirrel came up and stepped on my foot while I was walking back from my English class.” Now there are no squirrels enrolled in English classes.
The article goes on to talk about how subjects (nouns) and verbs should not be separated. Macrorie gives the example, “Professor Rending, in approaching his subject, stumbled in circles, like a drunk.” The subject of the sentence, Professor Rending, is too far from the verb, stumbled. The sentence is fixed in the article like so, “In approaching his subject, Professor Rending stumbled in circles, like a drunk.”
Rearranging a sentence can also help a writer eliminate useless expressions. Macrorie believes that the sentence, “Queen Gertrude is a weak person, who is, in spite of her faults, held in high regard by the three men in her life” should be changed to, “In spite of her faults, Queen Gertrude is held in high regard by the three men in her life.”
Macrorie states, “...most slips in pronoun reference and noun-verb agreement occur in long sentences which interrupt themselves with qualifications and side-trips.” He suggests going over the sentences you have written to see if their meaning has not “slid into a ditch.”
The article also talks about the words “which” and “that” to refer to a whole action. Macrorie says to be careful when using these two words because sentences can become confusing unless you are “including a clear referent word immediately preceding which or that.” He provides the example, “Renny approves of making changes now, which is all right with me.” Macrorie believes that this is a fine sentence, but if a writer puts to many words in the sentence the meaning may suffer. He gives this sentence to make his point, “Renny approves of making changes now in the plan, which is all right with me.” The reader will be confused and wonder if the “all right with me” is in relation to the changes in the plan or the plan itself?
Macrorie believes that writers should try “telescoping” related sentences, or getting rid of periods and putting in other punctuation to strengthen and give them more meaning. The example Macrorie puts is, “Immediately Juliet sees the only solution to her problem. That solution is suicide. This is a highly illogical choice.” He then rewrites the sentences as, “Immediately Juliet sees the only solution to her problem–suicide, a highly illogical choice.” He states that this “taking-on must be done with care.” If the reader thinks that Juliet is the one who believes suicide is illogical, and not the writer, then there is a problem with the sentence. Macrorie says how “tacking-on” is useful for writers and can help to build stronger sentences.
Macrorie ends by talking about how shifting the place of an adjective can be used to surprise the reader like in the sentence, “He was a man lost.” The normal order would make this sentence, “He was a lost man.” The first sentence can make the reader do a double take, which may be good. Macrorie warns that if this is done to much, though, the reader will no longer be surprised and may be turned off from the reading.
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by: David Hellberg
Ken Macrorie’s article, The Order of Words, is about just that, the order of words. On occasion all writers -including professional writers –confuse word order, lack a clear signal by pronouns, and have verbs which don’t signal the nouns they belong to. These are common mistakes which we all run into in our writing at some point. Between the ages of six and eight, most children have already identified the singles to attribute the proper agreement between subject and verb. They would not say a sentence like such as: Billy and Henry rode his bike. They would say, Billy and Henry rode their bikes.
One thing to keep in mind when editing your writing is that word order signals meaning. Keep words that belong together, together. An example used in the essay marks these words by italics and small caps: This task, which George found highly agonizing, grew under the heat of the afternoon sun soon to be unbearable, and he QUIT working at it steadily EVENTUALLY. This sentence makes much more sense after the revision but reveals its sloppiness: Under the heat of the afternoon sun, this agonizing task soon grew unbearable and George eventually quit working at it steadily. We can see that either the “soon” or “eventually” should be removed. Be careful, sentence revision does not always change the meaning of the sentence.
Another problem writers come across is a dangling construction, like pronoun/antecedent agreement. We wouldn’t say, “While walking back from my English class, a squirrel came up and stepped on my foot,” because this structure suggests that the squirrel was walking from his English class. Also words like “it”, “which”, and “that” are commonly used in place of preceding words. This can become problematic when the sentence has more than one thing going on. A sentence like, “Renny approves of making changes now in the plan, which is all right with me,” the reader is left to guess at whether the changes or the plan is what is “all right with me.” Check your writing for these words and consider replacing them with stronger words, or reword the sentence.
Telescoping, the combining of closely related sentences, is another method which can help to tighten up ones writing. “Immediately Juliet sees the only solution to her problem. That solution is suicide. This is a highly illogical choice.” When these sentences are tacked together they should read something like this: “Immediately Juliet sees the only solution to her problem-suicide, a highly illogical choice. Strong tack-on sentences can bring your writing to life. If you look at a good writers writing, you’ll see that they have a subject, verb, and then add nouns, prepositional phrases, or phrases beginning with verb forms ending in –ing or –ed. Look at this sentence from Mark Twain as an example: “Each of us lives and words on a small part of the earth’s surface, moves in a small circle, and of these acquaintance knows only a few intimately.”
Look over your writing and see if you can find any of these mistakes. Make your corrections directly to the draft to help you see where your errors are. Try saying your sentences out loud, reword sentences, and look for vague reference words such as “it”, “which”, and “that” which may not be appropriate for the action preceding it.
First off i would like to say that Ryan did a great summary. It was greatly detailed and he wrote it with great understanding of what the article is about. In this article, once again Macrorie brings out great points regarding proper grammar. In the article the author discusses the order of words and how the way we say our words has a lot to do with the correct way of speaking.Macrocrie also tries to explain to readers that the lack of correct pronoun usage can stand in the way of readers speaking clearly and correctly.The article also displays great examples such as different revision of original literature. The author also does a good job of showing how grammar has evolved and improved over the years. I liked this article. Once again it brought out points that i never paid attention to.
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ReplyDeleteMacrorie's article related very well to what we are learning in class this semester. Usually I would be bored by reading an article like this, but since I knew the subject material it kept my attention. When I read the first sentence of the first summary I understood what was written, and did not realize that the sentence was written out of order. I think as a writer one needs to be aware of all the issues Macrorie addresses in his article. Furthermore, if a writer cannot organize and structure the story/their thoughts clearly and concisely no one is going to want to read his/her works. Although I think that all these little mistakes are barely noticeable, in the long run they matter as to how well one can translate thoughts into words on paper. If a the person cannot write the story with the words in order, how is the reader supposed to know what goes where?
ReplyDeleteThe article that Macrorie wrote was very understanding and informative. He broke everything down so that we as readers can understand his perspective. I completely agree with Macrorie when he mentions that we sometimes have a difficult time trying to distinguish word agreements in sentences. This is very true because sometimes I catch myself making this mistake without realizing it. In the summary that Ryan wrote, he mentioned a lot of good examples that deal with word agreements and did a really great job with pin pointing all the good points in Macrorie's article. Once again, Macrorie does a great job at explaining what and how proper grammar should be used. What he is trying to tell students is that if one cannot struture their sentences concisely then they are not writing the proper way and not 'making sense.' Although these may be minor mistakes, in the end they matter because someone with a higher proficiency in English will notice these minor mistakes.
ReplyDeleteThese are both very detailed and thought out summaries. Macroire's Article was written in a different style than most articles. It read similar to a textbook, by the way Macroire gave an example then text. Macroire included many popular errors all writers are guilty of. Some of which have been discussed in class. Macroire mentioned dangling modifiers, verb tenses, pronoun/antecedent agreements in general this article complimented the material we are currently covering in class. It also provides some extra tips to help avoid these errors. This is helpful since some articles only define the problem without giving any sort of aid on how to fix it.
ReplyDeleteI really like this article by Macrorie. This is actually a problem for me. When I read words that are out of order, or a sentence with a dangling modifier, I become very distracted and lose interest because of my lack of understanding. Now that I am studying and looking for these types of mistakes it is getting easier for me to fix the problem and continue on. However, with word order especially, I sometimes can't make since of exactly what they mean. I believe rearranging sentences is crucial to ones writing. Doing so avoids dangling modifiers and incorrect word order, making the text easier to read. Macrorie did a good job pointing out all the errors that are difficult for readers, and correcting the mistakes, along with tips on how writers can avoid mistakes all together.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the beginning of the Macrorie article. His example of children often knowing correct word order then becoming confused later is very accurate. I feel that creative pursuits often benefit from the unlearning of things and relearning of what you knew as a child. Of course a child wouldn't make a great writer immediately so I suppose it depends on remembering those things as well as the the learning of good writing strategies.
ReplyDeleteMacrorie talks about word order getting messed up and becoming confusing. This can be caused by dangling modifiers, no clear signal by pronouns, and verbs that don't belong to a certain noun or it is unclear which one they belong to. All of this makes the reader unsure of what the writer is trying to say because of the mixed up order which confuses the message. It's interesting that Kids are better at this than adults, I wouldn't have guessed that. I'm assuming that this is probably because adults have lost their creativity and focus on the formality of their writing too much.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading this article by Macororie. A lot of people I know including myself have trouble with signal disagreement. I am not sure if I do by reading to fast or just reading the phrase incorrectly. This class has taught me how to slow down more and look for grammatical errors. I like the tips Macororie gave to help fix this error. I thought the fact that children are better at correcting this than adults. I wonder what the difference is and why are they able to recongnize this better than adults.
ReplyDeleteI would like to first say that Ryan did a great job at breaking down Macrories' article and giving examples. Macrorie did a great job at pointing out all the different grammatical errors that we've been learning in class so far. It was great extra help and practice especially since we're already familiar with grammar such as dangling modifiers from the mini lessons. I think Macrorie does a great job at keeping the readers attention, he fills his articles with examples, occasional humor, and grammar that is relevant to us.
ReplyDeleteMacoroie's article "The Order of Words" is an article that expressed a subject that I have never really took into consideration. The order in which words are phrased is often confused because of dangling modifiers, pronoun/antecedent disagreement, and other grammatical errors. Macoroie's mentioning of adults having a problem with making grammar errors more than children was a very interesting and I'm sure a little known fact. All in all I found this article very helpful and informative how to identify and correct grammatical errors.
ReplyDeleteBoth summaries are well written and informative. I have noticed over the years that order related errors, particularly dangling modifiers, seem to be the most common mistakes that writers make. Curiously, a lot of these mistakes find their way past even editors and into print. I think that we often speak this way and that these mistakes result from the rapid transferring of thoughts to paper that can occur when someone undertakes a long writing project. Read in the flow of a larger work, these mistakes can be easy to ignore, much in the same way that spelling mistakes are often overlooked because the mind translates the letters that are there into what it thinks should be there. We can unconsciously make the connections between a modifying phrase or clause and the noun it is modifying even when they are misplaced. This is why it's important to slow down and carefully read each sentence when proofreading.
ReplyDeleteI liked this article by Macrorie better than the first one we read. Many times when I am reading various forms of creative writing by amateur writers, they mess up a story with awkward word order. Even when I am reading a story that has tolerable grammar, spelling, punctuation, and plot, the word order of the sentences is often poorly thought out. I am quite sure that I do it to, but it is more difficult for me to see in my own writing than it is for me to see it in the writing of others. This article is very useful for people who have just such a problem, whether it is for their own writing or for editing other people's writing.
ReplyDeleteMacrorie's article was very informative. I appreciate the way he broke this issue down into simple terms so that people as myself could get a better understanding of this issue. Writing period is a very difficult task. Mainly besause you have to take into consideration the correct parts of speech and making sure that the pronoubs in the sentence agree with one another etc, but most people don't pay attention to thos things and thats where the problem lies. Simple grammatical errors of that sort could simply be solved through proof reading.
ReplyDeleteI think both summaries and the article were all written very well. All were very detailed and informative. This was actually one of the articles that I could easily understand. One point from the article I agree with is the fact we have a hard time seeing word agreements in sentences. Macrorie does a good job explaining the ways grammar should be used. Another thing I liked about the article was that it can relate to what we are talking about in class. That way the article keeps the readers attention if they can relate to the material.
ReplyDeleteKen Marcories article, “The Order of Words” explains some common grammar mistakes that make English difficult to comprehend. Macrorie states that when editors find weakness in grammar it is in three key areas. The first weakness Macrorie writes about is confusing word order. The second thing he writes about is the lack of clear signal pronouns. The last thing the he writes about is verbs that do not signal the nouns they belong to. Macrorie claims these are the three most common weaknesses editors find in writers grammar. Dangling construction of words makes it so the reader does not know what the pronoun is acting upon. These mistakes are common like most of what Marcorie writes about. Distinguishing word agreement is another subject Marcorie explains many writers have difficulty. I know personally it takes me a few times to reread my own writing before I know the pronouns and subjects agree. Often I cannot tell with my own writing and I need someone else to look it over.
ReplyDeleteThe summary that they wrote was very understanding and informative. They broke everything down so that we can understand Marcorie's perspective. I agree with Macrorie when he mentions that we sometimes have a difficult time trying to distinguish word agreements in sentences. This is true because I catch myself making this mistake without even noticing it when I write. what Ryan wrote, he mentioned a lot of examples that deal with word agreements and did a good job with pin pointing all the good points in Macrorie's article. Once again, Macrorie does a great job at explaining what and how proper grammar should be used. What he is trying to tell students is that one cannot structure their sentences concisely then they are not writing the proper way and not 'making sense.' Although these may be minor mistakes, in the end they matter because someone with a higher proficiency in English will notice these minor mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI think both summaries were outstanding. Although the summaries were rather long they were still a condensed version of the article. The first summary started off very odd and confused me, but once I read deeper into it, it actually made more sense to me. I could grasp the concept. The second summary was straight to the point. Even though both had a few minor mistakes they were detailed.
ReplyDeleteI like Macrorie's article. He has pointed out some clear grammar agreements through those effective examples. I like Ryan O'Connell’s and David Hellberg’s post as well. They have summarized the important points from the article. In my experience, I am always do the wrong words of order in my English especially in speaking English. Sometimes, I would use the wrong pronoun in my sentences. For example, I am talking about my female friend. Perhaps I would use he, his or him to relate to her. I know this is a kind of stupid thing so that I am trying to correct it every time.
ReplyDeleteI felt the students who summarized this article , perhaps did the best job I have seen thus far. They wrote as if they had extensive knowledge of the situation, which proved they read the article with a great level of understanding. As for the article itself, it did a good job a outlining a few reason how the improper word order has a negative effect on the message the writer is attempting to convey. This particular point is true in my case. I tend to misuse words in my speaking and that often transitions into my writing. If myself and other students take into consideration these point, we'll all be better writers as a result.
ReplyDeleteBoth did an excellent job of writing the summaries for this article. As for the article itself, it was very educational. It was nice to know that even professionals make these mistakes. The use of certain words along with the order can be very difficult at times; confusing the the verb with the subject, alongside the tense. Word order is difficult.
ReplyDeleteThis was a excellent summary by Ryan. He provided a lot of detail to point out the authors main points. I believe that word structure isn't particularly rocket-science for a person to understand. As elementary as it sounds, I believe that it is best to say a sentence out loud to determine if it makes sense. I believe that it comes down to "proof-reading." I was always taught in school to read something out loud because when you do that then you hear what you're saying to see if something makes sense or not.
ReplyDeleteBoth summaries were great but I must say Ryan's summary was more understanding and provided examples which made it even clearer. The article was good and relatable because people do use improper grammar and it can confuse the reader without being clear on what the author is try to say or explain. Word order is difficult especially if you are so use to talking that way it often reflects in your writing which is the wrong way. If we apply these points in the classroom and on homework then we will become better writers.
ReplyDeleteBoth summaries were well written. Ryan's summary was extremely detailed. Overall I thought that the article was interesting and useful. Personally, I believe that the proper construction of sentences is important for not only writers but everyone. I believe that the better ones' grammar is, the more educated they sound. Until this class, I didn't really pay attention to proper grammar but now I notice such things.
ReplyDeleteIn the article "The Order of Words" the author Macrorie discusses several different problems that people occur while writing. The first mistake he talks about is confusing word order.The second mistake he talks about is not having clear signal pronouns. The last thing the he discusses about is verbs that do not signal the nouns they belong to. These are the most common that people come into when looking over people's papers. The problem with these writing mistakes is they make the sentence hard to understand when the words are out of order or the pronouns are not correct. I believe that every writer has this problem at some point in their career, and I too do this sometimes. After reading this article, I am going to be more focused on having the correct word order and making sure the pronouns I use are correct.
ReplyDeleteThe correction that was made to this sentence was not fixed it. It only made it more confusing to read, and saying that the squirrel is enrolled in English is wrong as well. "walking back from" tell the reader that “While walking back from my English class, a squirrel came up and stepped on my foot.” the subject is out the class room, also reading this while at SIUC the reader will picture the subject outside. A better way the write the sentence is “While walking back from my English class, a squirrel came up to me and stepped on my foot.”
ReplyDeleteRyan and David did a great job in their summary of the article, "The Order of Words." Both summaries were rather long, but in this case, was a good thing because nothing needed was left out. They both did an outstanding job with both their examples and their input on the topic. Everything was stated clearly in both summaries, so their was no need to go back to the actual article. Overall, great job!
ReplyDeleteThe orders of wording is important, unless you want you sentance to look like some sort of jigsaw puzzle. The great detail in the summary made me understand what this article was about before I even read it. It made the reading of the article go by faster because I knew what the article was talking about. Confusing the word order can really mess up what people think you are talking about. It is best to know what you are trying to write and makes sure to make it clear.
ReplyDeleteIn the article "The Order of Words" Macrorie talks about complications of word order. First he brings up confusing work order. Secondly, he talks about the lack of clear signal by pronouns. Last he discusses verbs which don't signal which nouns they belong to. The author also talks about dangling modifiers. In my opinion, I think in order to see a positive change in writing, writers must practice identifying and fixing these mistakes.
ReplyDeleteThe article also talks about the words “which” and “that” to refer to a whole action.Macrorie believes that writers should try “telescoping” related sentences, or getting rid of periods and putting in other punctuation to strengthen and give them more meaning.Word order is difficult especially if you are so use to talking that way it often reflects in your writing which is the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the article ties into the past articles that we have had to previously read. In his article Macrorie goes over what a lot of writers believe is a big problem in people's writing, which is dangling modifiers. He went over how when a sentence is not written right then it can come off the wrong way and/or leave the reader confused. I believe that this article was more understanding and useful then the past articles that we read, which were long, boring, and confusing.
ReplyDeleteBoth of these summaries were great! They were very detailed and showed an understanding by the writers on what the article was about. I really enjoyed this article. Macrorie gave amazing examples regarding proper grammar usage, including, the order of words and the lack of correct pronoun usage. I really liked how Macrorie also discussed different revisions of original literature and then later went on to talk about how grammar has evolved. Both of those topics really helped in understand the rest of the material in the article. I easily connected with this article because I have trouble reading words out of order, reading a complex sentence incorrectly or I simply get confused of what the words are saying. After reading this article and taking this class I am now more aware of what I am reading and writing.
ReplyDeleteRyan's summary was very understanding and detailed. Overall I thought both summaries were great. In the article the author discuss grammar issues that some of the other authors may have mentioned before. He mentioned a form of grammar that we have covered once in class before which is dangling modifiers. The author explains how people may read or not get the message that was intended if you use this grammar in an incorrect way. I agree with the author because many times before I may have read something that seemed a little confusing to me because of the way they used the grammar.
ReplyDeleteThis article is written by Macrorie and is about the confusion that comes up switching up word order. When word order is switched it becomes much more confusing to understand, especially for those who are of older generations. He writes that children have more success recognizing this, while the older generations struggle with this concept. In the English language, it’s important to not struggle with dangling modifier and verb/subject order because that makes sentences lose their sense. Macrorie shows examples to show that structure agreement is important and that it should not be taken lightly. Moving anything in a sentence to the wrong order is a very crucial mistake.
ReplyDeleteBoth students did a great job summarizing the article. The article discusses grammar problems that some authors have brought up before. This subject of grammar is one we covered in class, dangling modifiers. The author explains how people may struggle with dangling modifiers. Macrorie gives examples to show that structure agreement is important and that it shouldn't be put on the backseat.
ReplyDeleteThe orders of words are not always structured properly by college students. I am not even sure why I do it at times. I will sometimes write my sentences backwards without thought. Then to sound educated, I just write how I speak but that does not always mean it is proper do to lack of pronunciation and all the grammatical errors in my thoughts. There again speaking and writing are different.
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